Big Fat Weapon Update on Public Test
- Thread starter GReaper
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DeadGuy
Legions Developer
OK guys, let us talk. There has been some heated conversations lately about the Developers and the community, and wanting more transparency. I want to apologize to everyone who felt that you were being ignored or that your opinion does not matter.
About 2 months ago we had decided to get custom scripts released to the community in an effort to allow the modders a few more tools at their disposal to tweak and customize Legions. In hindsight some of you might have preferred us putting our entire focus on public voting and admin options, but we felt it was a good step at the time to furthering our goal of personal servers and full modding abilities. We plan to get there and we are taking steps to ensure it.
Two weeks ago we were working on voting and admin features along side trying to fix custom loadouts. We had run into a few problems with custom loadouts so we released the Skybolt and new hand grenades in as a way to gauge how you would react to having to use the escape menu and a lack of polish. We got mostly positive feedback from doing it this way, even though it wasn't our first choice at all.
Shortly after the Skybolt and hand grenades were put on public test we temporarily dropped working on custom loadouts to finish the public voting and admin features as soon as possible. This is currently our top priority (headed by Rockey at the moment) and we hope to have it completed soon, but in the meantime we have a bit of distraction to entertain you guys with while we wait. The green death returns!
About 2 months ago we had decided to get custom scripts released to the community in an effort to allow the modders a few more tools at their disposal to tweak and customize Legions. In hindsight some of you might have preferred us putting our entire focus on public voting and admin options, but we felt it was a good step at the time to furthering our goal of personal servers and full modding abilities. We plan to get there and we are taking steps to ensure it.
Two weeks ago we were working on voting and admin features along side trying to fix custom loadouts. We had run into a few problems with custom loadouts so we released the Skybolt and new hand grenades in as a way to gauge how you would react to having to use the escape menu and a lack of polish. We got mostly positive feedback from doing it this way, even though it wasn't our first choice at all.
Shortly after the Skybolt and hand grenades were put on public test we temporarily dropped working on custom loadouts to finish the public voting and admin features as soon as possible. This is currently our top priority (headed by Rockey at the moment) and we hope to have it completed soon, but in the meantime we have a bit of distraction to entertain you guys with while we wait. The green death returns!
SeymourGore
Flatulent Cherub
I find the wording 'fat' to be offensive.
Also: Lets go play!
Also: Lets go play!
Ucantry2run
Private Tester
CAN COMPETITION COME BACK YET? :-(
ExtremeKiwi
New Member
wow... it looks a whole lot nicer than the normal white bolts we are used to looking at 
phanakapan
Private Tester
Edited First Impressions:
Mortar
-MAing with a mortar shouldn't be possible at super close range. you can MA one shot people at 10m currently. There should be a minimum distance/time before it explodes in my opinion.
-The damage, size of the explosion, and the amount it moves players should be increased a bit to offset the long timer and long reload and low ammo count. Currently, mortar jumping isn't really worth it, but it should be in my opinion. It is also heavy only, so it should be a seriously powerful weapon and the current one seems a tiny bit underpowered.
-The speed and range of the projectile should be increased for those long range shots on outgoing cappers.
-visually i love it
Plasma
-I think it shouldn't have a cooldown. With its already limited range and relatively slow projectile, it needs more than just a small damage advantage over the chaingun to make it useful. Having it also slow down and become inaccurate seems a bit too much to make it really useful.
-I like that it has a small amount of splash and a tiny knockback effect, but splash doesnt do anything while dueling floating targets, and the knockback doesn't seem to either. It would be nice to see the knockback increased slightly to make a few rounds in a row knock a capper slightly off their route (only enough to make them have to correct, not altogether ruin a route). again, do to its disadvantages to the chaingun, this would give it a nice useful feature and fill a unique niche.
Blaster
-I'll admit, without base assets and bases in general where indoor fighting is necessary, i don't see the point of the blaster yet. It does seem interesting that it doesn't move the flag around (maybe it does a bit, but I havent noticed it) which could give it an interesting niche for clearing downed flags without knocking it around, making returns easier in certain situations.
Bolt
-i love the bolt changes. I think they are exactly what should have happened. I still don't like the explosion though. It's really hard to tell if you've actually MAd someone.
-I also think the number of MAs and the distance should still show up. Not sure why this was taken out.
-pretty useless against a heavy, but a great finishing weapon on cappers. I've already had some pretty neat long range capper kills with it since the update, but I can't see how far they are
Rocket
-at first I wasn't a fan of the new rocket art, but after reviewing fraps from past MAs and new ones, I kind of like the look of the new one. It looks less substantial or impressive in a way, but it also looks less gimmicky, and on certain terrains is more visible.
Laser Rifle
-making this outrider only was a good move, though hornet chasing is seriously easy now. Not sure how that should be fixed, or even if it should, but I can see 2 or 3 hornets per team being a must in future comp, which seems a bit unbalanced.
-I still think reverting to the original sniper rifle with charge to fire would fix so many issues, but I understand people are really really protective of their ability to point and click people half way across the map without any planning or prep.
Grenade Launcher
-I'll admit, I like the change to the way the new nades work. I like the new arc and the bounciness.
-I do think they should do more damage than the rockets by 10% or so (they may, I haven't tested enough honestly to know exactly how much damage they do, but everyone seems to be bitching about it)
-I think because they are no longer a ground pound close up style weapon (which is a good thing, since there was so much overlap between the rockets and nades), they should be better suited for chasing and clearing at distance. I think the reload timer should be shortened on these so you can lay down 2 or 3 in succession on a flag stand while you come in on a route. as it stands now, any fast route only allows for one quality shot to clear, and maybe a hand nade. This is fine for something like the rocket, where you can precisely aim to the side of a HoF, but with nades, I think you should be able to toss 2 on a fast route. You would still be limited by the timer/distance limitations of the weapon, but it would give nades a niche use for cappers as well as chasers. something to try maybe?
Grenade Launcher II
-I honestly got pretty excited when I saw that raiders could use clusters again, but the new clusters have some issues. This weapon has so much potential, but has always seemed forced and troublesome.
-the name GLII is confusing and harkens back to specialist weapons which were all around failures. Lets just call it the "Cluster Launcher"
-Lets keep the old nade launcher physics, but change the way it works. Make it so whenever the cluster hits something like a midair shot or the ground, it explodes like a firework, in every direction. It would do some midair damage, but not the full cluster damage. This would differentiate it from the grenade launcher, and make MAs in high traffic damage multiple players more effectively.
-If the player detonates the cluster, it will work just as it always has, firing clusters in the direction of the projectile, but lets add a small amount of damage to the explosion itself, and possibly shoot a small number of clusters in all directions. This would be almost like the old RL spec, but without being too damaging, maybe 20% if its dead on a player. Could make for interesting midair flag play options and give the weapon a unique niche.
-rebuff the damage and the boost, maybe not back to its former power, but make it seriously damage an outrider on a direct release as a mine on the flag or when released just above them on the ground, something like 80%. Make it feared again, but not overpowered.
-Make cluster jumping worth it again by buffing it as discussed above
Boost Nades
-i honestly miss the ability to toss and nade jump to regrab since the new nades are so weak unless used multiple times. That said, they still provide a unique ability and a crucial skill in starting a lot of chases.
-combos can still devastate incoming cappers by throwing them off course without one shotting them, which is a good thing
-using them just as nades, whether to knock people around midair, or to move flags etc is pretty much worthless from my experiences, but even without this, they provide the above advantages and are useful
Frag Nades
-these are nice as finishers every now and then, but without being able to nade jump, I really don't see the point in ever choosing them over boost nades, unless you're playing stay at home or you're in a sentinal and have iOD, but that gives them a niche use which is a good thing.
Further Suggestions...
-More than anything, I want to see an Elf gun like from Tribes. Some way of attacking energy and possibly dropping someone out of Overdrive as well while doing very minimal damage. Energy is so important in this game, and so far no weapon addresses this. Hopefully we get some kind of EMP grenades, but more than anything I think we should have a sustained close range ability to ground someone by sucking away their energy.
Mortar
-MAing with a mortar shouldn't be possible at super close range. you can MA one shot people at 10m currently. There should be a minimum distance/time before it explodes in my opinion.
-The damage, size of the explosion, and the amount it moves players should be increased a bit to offset the long timer and long reload and low ammo count. Currently, mortar jumping isn't really worth it, but it should be in my opinion. It is also heavy only, so it should be a seriously powerful weapon and the current one seems a tiny bit underpowered.
-The speed and range of the projectile should be increased for those long range shots on outgoing cappers.
-visually i love it
Plasma
-I think it shouldn't have a cooldown. With its already limited range and relatively slow projectile, it needs more than just a small damage advantage over the chaingun to make it useful. Having it also slow down and become inaccurate seems a bit too much to make it really useful.
-I like that it has a small amount of splash and a tiny knockback effect, but splash doesnt do anything while dueling floating targets, and the knockback doesn't seem to either. It would be nice to see the knockback increased slightly to make a few rounds in a row knock a capper slightly off their route (only enough to make them have to correct, not altogether ruin a route). again, do to its disadvantages to the chaingun, this would give it a nice useful feature and fill a unique niche.
Blaster
-I'll admit, without base assets and bases in general where indoor fighting is necessary, i don't see the point of the blaster yet. It does seem interesting that it doesn't move the flag around (maybe it does a bit, but I havent noticed it) which could give it an interesting niche for clearing downed flags without knocking it around, making returns easier in certain situations.
Bolt
-i love the bolt changes. I think they are exactly what should have happened. I still don't like the explosion though. It's really hard to tell if you've actually MAd someone.
-I also think the number of MAs and the distance should still show up. Not sure why this was taken out.
-pretty useless against a heavy, but a great finishing weapon on cappers. I've already had some pretty neat long range capper kills with it since the update, but I can't see how far they are
Rocket
-at first I wasn't a fan of the new rocket art, but after reviewing fraps from past MAs and new ones, I kind of like the look of the new one. It looks less substantial or impressive in a way, but it also looks less gimmicky, and on certain terrains is more visible.
Laser Rifle
-making this outrider only was a good move, though hornet chasing is seriously easy now. Not sure how that should be fixed, or even if it should, but I can see 2 or 3 hornets per team being a must in future comp, which seems a bit unbalanced.
-I still think reverting to the original sniper rifle with charge to fire would fix so many issues, but I understand people are really really protective of their ability to point and click people half way across the map without any planning or prep.
Grenade Launcher
-I'll admit, I like the change to the way the new nades work. I like the new arc and the bounciness.
-I do think they should do more damage than the rockets by 10% or so (they may, I haven't tested enough honestly to know exactly how much damage they do, but everyone seems to be bitching about it)
-I think because they are no longer a ground pound close up style weapon (which is a good thing, since there was so much overlap between the rockets and nades), they should be better suited for chasing and clearing at distance. I think the reload timer should be shortened on these so you can lay down 2 or 3 in succession on a flag stand while you come in on a route. as it stands now, any fast route only allows for one quality shot to clear, and maybe a hand nade. This is fine for something like the rocket, where you can precisely aim to the side of a HoF, but with nades, I think you should be able to toss 2 on a fast route. You would still be limited by the timer/distance limitations of the weapon, but it would give nades a niche use for cappers as well as chasers. something to try maybe?
Grenade Launcher II
-I honestly got pretty excited when I saw that raiders could use clusters again, but the new clusters have some issues. This weapon has so much potential, but has always seemed forced and troublesome.
-the name GLII is confusing and harkens back to specialist weapons which were all around failures. Lets just call it the "Cluster Launcher"
-Lets keep the old nade launcher physics, but change the way it works. Make it so whenever the cluster hits something like a midair shot or the ground, it explodes like a firework, in every direction. It would do some midair damage, but not the full cluster damage. This would differentiate it from the grenade launcher, and make MAs in high traffic damage multiple players more effectively.
-If the player detonates the cluster, it will work just as it always has, firing clusters in the direction of the projectile, but lets add a small amount of damage to the explosion itself, and possibly shoot a small number of clusters in all directions. This would be almost like the old RL spec, but without being too damaging, maybe 20% if its dead on a player. Could make for interesting midair flag play options and give the weapon a unique niche.
-rebuff the damage and the boost, maybe not back to its former power, but make it seriously damage an outrider on a direct release as a mine on the flag or when released just above them on the ground, something like 80%. Make it feared again, but not overpowered.
-Make cluster jumping worth it again by buffing it as discussed above
Boost Nades
-i honestly miss the ability to toss and nade jump to regrab since the new nades are so weak unless used multiple times. That said, they still provide a unique ability and a crucial skill in starting a lot of chases.
-combos can still devastate incoming cappers by throwing them off course without one shotting them, which is a good thing
-using them just as nades, whether to knock people around midair, or to move flags etc is pretty much worthless from my experiences, but even without this, they provide the above advantages and are useful
Frag Nades
-these are nice as finishers every now and then, but without being able to nade jump, I really don't see the point in ever choosing them over boost nades, unless you're playing stay at home or you're in a sentinal and have iOD, but that gives them a niche use which is a good thing.
Further Suggestions...
-More than anything, I want to see an Elf gun like from Tribes. Some way of attacking energy and possibly dropping someone out of Overdrive as well while doing very minimal damage. Energy is so important in this game, and so far no weapon addresses this. Hopefully we get some kind of EMP grenades, but more than anything I think we should have a sustained close range ability to ground someone by sucking away their energy.
Calimo
Member
I agree with this. Mortar should just bounce off people IMO.
Fixious
Test Lead
Despite DL saying otherwise, the Rocketlauncher does feel different. I've yet to fully test everything out, but this was something that jumped out at me. Freeman also noticed a change. The projectile seems smaller, which also makes it feel faster for some reason. I also noticed a slight graphical glitch with the plasma rifle. The projectile looks quite blocky up close, but maybe it's just me.
Replacing mortar sounds with Tribes sounds pronto.
Replacing mortar sounds with Tribes sounds pronto.
57thRomance
Member
Holy *chocolate cookies*. This is so much for me to take in right now
Aki
Member
I thought RL seemed to do more damage than usual, but maybe that's 'cause I never hit with it XD .
I like the changes to the SB, even if I do miss having a little splash with it; however, since there is now a class with SB and RL, that's hardly a problem.
Of the newest, I think I liked the blaster best. It seems to be just the right speed and splash for me to actually hit with it.
The plasma gun bothers me a little. Given its high ROF, I keep thinking the projectiles are too slow. Maybe it's the CG sound making me aim too close, but I hit less with the plasma than anything else, ever
. That'll change with practice, but I do still feel the high ROF and low projectile speed are counter-intuitive.
I was glad to see the mortar has a low ROF and the explosions aren't as big as the blog made them sound--I was expecting nuke sized blasts that could clear out the Stygian base in one or two shots, but that didn't seem to be the case. A nimble OR who can manage his speed can still stay away from them as easily as the old clusters.
And about clusters, I forgot to give them a try and now I gotta head out the door for a couple hours.
Like everything so far.
I can't wait for each weapon to have its own model. I do agree that the SB explosion could be a little more spectacular for the benefit of the user (it's really hard to see your hits unless it was a 4 meter shot), and I think that all the new weapons' sound effects, while fitting, could be more dramatic. RL, too--I use the Tribes disk soundeffects for RL because it sounds more like something that'll kill you dead than the standard SEs. I think all the sounds are too muted and soft. These are weapons of war meant to shred through advanced armor and composite materials to blast apart or disintegrate flesh, not stand in for white noise or rain sound to lull you to sleep. The sounds we have right now are cool, don't get me wrong; they just need to be louder, sharper--sounds that you'll feel in your chest when you turn up the bass and get your adrenaline going because it sounds like you're in a warzone.
I like the changes to the SB, even if I do miss having a little splash with it; however, since there is now a class with SB and RL, that's hardly a problem.
Of the newest, I think I liked the blaster best. It seems to be just the right speed and splash for me to actually hit with it.
The plasma gun bothers me a little. Given its high ROF, I keep thinking the projectiles are too slow. Maybe it's the CG sound making me aim too close, but I hit less with the plasma than anything else, ever
. That'll change with practice, but I do still feel the high ROF and low projectile speed are counter-intuitive.I was glad to see the mortar has a low ROF and the explosions aren't as big as the blog made them sound--I was expecting nuke sized blasts that could clear out the Stygian base in one or two shots, but that didn't seem to be the case. A nimble OR who can manage his speed can still stay away from them as easily as the old clusters.
And about clusters, I forgot to give them a try and now I gotta head out the door for a couple hours.
Like everything so far.
I can't wait for each weapon to have its own model. I do agree that the SB explosion could be a little more spectacular for the benefit of the user (it's really hard to see your hits unless it was a 4 meter shot), and I think that all the new weapons' sound effects, while fitting, could be more dramatic. RL, too--I use the Tribes disk soundeffects for RL because it sounds more like something that'll kill you dead than the standard SEs. I think all the sounds are too muted and soft. These are weapons of war meant to shred through advanced armor and composite materials to blast apart or disintegrate flesh, not stand in for white noise or rain sound to lull you to sleep. The sounds we have right now are cool, don't get me wrong; they just need to be louder, sharper--sounds that you'll feel in your chest when you turn up the bass and get your adrenaline going because it sounds like you're in a warzone.
SeymourGore
Flatulent Cherub
Yar, agreeing with the removal of Mortar pointblank MA shots. Another thing that I noticed was that I could stand on top of the flag, then shoot the mortar down at myself. Since it explodes when the projectile hits my player model, it makes timing mortar shots against incoming cappers a bit too easy.
Don't want to see Mortar MA's entirely taken out, though, midrange-longrange mortar MAs are hella fun.
Don't want to see Mortar MA's entirely taken out, though, midrange-longrange mortar MAs are hella fun.
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